# 40 The PIP Fiasco

In this conversation, Scott Whitney discusses the challenges surrounding Personal Independence Payments (PIP) and the barriers disabled individuals face in the workforce. 

He highlights the high rate of appeals against PIP decisions and shares personal experiences that illustrate the daily struggles of living with a disability. 

Scott emphasises the need for better support systems and training for employers to create more inclusive workplaces, ultimately advocating for solutions that can help disabled individuals gain employment while still receiving necessary support.

He also discusses how the government may be able to solve two problems by looking at them together instead of looking at them separately and hurting disabled people.

Transcript

Scott Whitney (00:02.518)
Hey, how doing? I'm Scott Whitney. Thank you for tuning in. I thought I'd throw my two pennies worth into the government and the PIP nonsense. So first of all, there was a lot of really, really high number of appeals. It's about eight in 10 PIPs decisions are declined initially. 

Scott Whitney (00:30.798)
and go to a tribunal. When they hit the tribunal, 70 % are overturned in favour of the applicant. So when the government is saying that people are, fraudulently getting PIP, you know, the amount of people that that happens to is very, very, very, very, very low. Where the government is wasting money and could save money. 

Scott Whitney (01:00.598)
is actually by ensuring that these 80 % of people aren't having to go through two sets of appeals, one of which by a court and one of which internally. If these people are given the correct decision more often, that's going to save the government billions. So that is what the government needs to concentrate on doing. 

Scott Whitney (01:30.434)
Then we're talking about pip going into. 

Scott Whitney (02:07.662)
So then the government are talking about PIP being almost like an out of work benefit. But here's some of the reasons why I get PIP. So I get PIP because I cannot make my own food. It's unsafe for me to use a knife. It's unsafe for me to transfer anything hot. So I cannot make my own food. And that's what the NHS say. Now... 

Scott Whitney (02:36.364)
When it comes to eating, I need to have some of my food cut up and I need to have... 

Scott Whitney (02:46.2)
chunkier knives and forks so That's a low element. You know I don't get many points for that, but that's still That's still something there now taking my medication In actual fact I probably should get points for this, but I don't ask for any points for it I physically take my medication myself, but 

Scott Whitney (03:13.166)
should probably get a low score on this because I can forget quite often to do that. Washing and bathing is something. 

Scott Whitney (03:27.832)
Showering is something else. I cannot shower on my own So I have people who shower completely for me So I don't don't do anything in the shower process Going to the toilet again. I cannot do unaided. So I need support there Getting dressed I need support getting dressed. So that is where my points 

Scott Whitney (03:56.111)
come in for and that's what qualifies me for PIP. So it's making food, it's showering, going to the toilet and getting dressed. And actually going to the toilet is a new thing so that's not even on my points at the moment. And eating and drinking I do get some points for. So other things that we could be looking at. 

Scott Whitney (04:21.16)
is being able to speak, being able to read and understand, socialise, handle money. All of those things I don't get points for because I'm able to do those. whether I work or whether I don't work, I still need support with these things. 

Scott Whitney (05:06.894)
Now the next thing is that a lot of people that are unemployed and disabled actually want to work. You there are some that are unable to work. There's probably a proportion that don't want to work, but that's the same when it comes to people who aren't disabled as well. There's a proportion that don't really want to work. So there's a lot of disabled people who want to work but aren't getting employed for one reason or 

Scott Whitney (05:37.189)
and a lot of that will come to... 

Scott Whitney (05:41.55)
both the job center and also employers. 

Scott Whitney (05:50.434)
recruitment processes being not accessible, not inclusive to disabled people. It will also be that. 

Scott Whitney (06:02.124)
the employer will want to employ someone who is non-disabled and especially now. So businesses have had some of their tax relief sort of taken away. They have to pay more national insurance. So the cost to employ someone is, has increased and that's going to put some businesses out of business. So there's going to be less and less people. 

Scott Whitney (06:32.13)
to hire disabled people. Now, that's, you know, I don't blame a business that's got one or two members of staff for looking out and looking after their business, but... 

Scott Whitney (06:51.98)
That doesn't necessarily mean that someone who's disabled is going to be off work more than someone who's non-disabled. There'll be a lot of disabled people who will want to prove a point to say, yeah, I might be disabled, but I'm still here and I'm still showing up every day. Now, disabled people are quite often problem solvers, and that's something that people generally want in a business. So when something comes up, they want someone who can naturally go and fix that. 

Scott Whitney (07:24.982)
Also, if we look at this, we can put two problems together. So one of the things that has not been mentioned by government at all, and it's something that I've spoken about numerous times, is right, we want to get more disabled people in work. Well, first of all, the employers need training to be able to support. And disabled people can deliver that training. So why don't the government, first of all, start looking? 

Scott Whitney (07:53.898)
at disabled people to deliver some of this training to employees, employers. 

Scott Whitney (08:01.152)
Then the next step is saying, right, let's, let's encourage employers to hire disabled people. And how can we do that? Well, the first one is if you've had a disabled employee for 12 months or longer, we will, the government will contribute towards their national insurance. So the business doesn't see that increase. 

Scott Whitney (08:30.702)
from what they were paying in national insurance to what they're paying now. Maybe if they're there for two years or longer, there's a further sort of decrease. So it's given an incentive to employers not just to hire someone who's disabled, but to invest the time and support for disabled people, keep disabled people in jobs. Finally, 

Scott Whitney (08:59.768)
Finally, other things such as access to work need sorting out. So I've known people who have taken on a role, they've applied for access to work and they need to have certain reasonable adjustments that the employer doesn't have to pay for because they come from access to work. And because access to work has taken six months or longer and that's beyond the person's probationary period, the employers let people go. So I find there's... 

Scott Whitney (09:29.602)
a real sort of blockage here and a lot of the blockage is caused by the government. So actually they could do so much to fix this and that would help get more disabled people into work. But just remember getting disabled people into work isn't going to reduce the amount of people that need personal independence payments. 

Scott Whitney (09:59.854)
That's a payment to be able to live as independently as possible. Part of living independently is working. Let me know your thoughts. Send us some comments and we'll be back soon.