# 21 Back to the accessible future

In this episode we are joined by Giselle Mota who is leading the way with accessibility in the metaverse and web 3. NFTY Collective have designed inclusive avatars of many disabled people including friends of the show Isaac Harvey and Victoria Jenkins.

You can watch this episode here >>> Back to the accessible future - YouTube

Giselle talks through her unique way of ensuring that hidden disabilities are included as much as those with physical disabilities. She is keen to be as diverse as possible with her collection.

Connect with Giselle here:

Giselle Mota | LinkedIn

NFTY Collective (@nfty.official) • Instagram photos and videos

Nfty Collective (@nfty_official) / Twitter

Voiceover for intro and outro by Jennie Eriksen | LinkedIn

Music granted free of charge very kindly by Music: https://www.purple-planet.com . The track is called Hope and Inspire.

Transcript

Scott Whitney: 0:48

Welcome, and thank you for joining us for the next episode of the All4Inclusion pod. So we're speaking to someone who's going to talk to us about something a little bit different today. Something that that blows my mind a little bit. So you might find that I'm a bit out of my depth in some of these conversations. But I'll welcome in Giselle, how are you doing?

Giselle Mota: 1:19

I'm doing well? How are you, Scott? Yeah, good. Thank you. Good. Thank you very much for joining us. Absolutely. You say you're out of your depth, but I bet you we're gonna get on a level playing field real quick. You'll see

Scott Whitney: 1:34

excellent, excellent. So because I would absolutely terrible job of introducing you. Do you mind just telling people who are listening? Who you are? What your what you do?

Giselle Mota: 1:46

Absolutely. So I'm Giselle Mota, I'm based in New York City in the United States, I have a background in really well talking about the future of work and how organisations have to think about their evolving workforce, the work that's getting done, where this workplace is, and how it keeps on evolving and changing over time. And I recently moved from that role into now focusing on inclusion in that space. So an inclusive future of work, how do we develop products? And how do we think about all that I just mentioned, with everybody in mind, and that's what I do in my day job at ADP. On the side, what I do is a project that I'd like to talk to you about today in the audience's it's called NFTY Collective. It's basically about emerging technologies I just mentioned, like AI and now web three, which will, you know, it's on the blockchain, and it's talking about NFT's and all these kinds of things. But also the metaverse, which is you can go to a concert, you can visit with friends and socialise with them, you can work together with your teams that work in a virtual environment. So what I wanted to do with that emerging tech is to make sure that people with disabilities don't get left out. So we created this project called NFTY Collective is works with global people with disabilities. And there are some of them are musicians, actors, thought leaders, authors like all over this space. And basically, we're creating avatars for them to use across these emerging technologies.

Scott Whitney: 3:15

Excellent. Excellent. So when you say Metaverse, and when you describe this to me, have you seen the film Ready Player One?

Giselle Mota: 3:26

You know what, I have not sat down to watch this thing, which sacrilege, I won't be here in this space. I've not seen this movie, but I've heard about it a lot.

Scott Whitney: 3:37

So to me, that's kind of what it's like where someone plugs into a game, and they can walk down almost like a Virtual High Street and go into different games, concerts, etc. And then. But, you know, we want people who are disabled to see themselves as disabled or people who didn't choose to be who they want to be, I guess that's the key,

Giselle Mota: 4:05

You got it. That's, that's what it's about. Because in all these experiences in tech, like there, there's not a lot of choice for you to be who you are. So for example, you can become an avatar across any experience. And basically, you have to be a Eurocentric model. In most cases, your body is of a certain type. So you can't have hips and curves. And you can't be a plumpy person, because the models that were designated for these avatars are trained on one kind of set of people. And then so just take that as an example. And imagine you don't have people who were born without arms or legs that show up in these experiences as themselves, you have to disguise yourself in an able body. And maybe you want to do that. And that can be a fun experience. Maybe you want to defy odds and perhaps you know you you were an amputee or you had different, you know, your limb different and then all of a sudden, now you have legs in an environment. That's what exists today. But what doesn't exist is the choice to be yourself. And that's why we created our project to give people that choice. If you want to be a quad in like an avatar, that's quadriplegic you can with our avatar if you want to be someone who's blind, deaf neurodiverse with dyslexia, like myself or anything else you can show up in that way. Excellent. Excellent. So should we start having a having a little bit of a look at some of these? Yeah, let's do it. Say that and people who are watching this will expect things just to just Yes, talking about tech, but sometimes you know, we're not Check this guy cooperate with us. While you try to pull that up Why try pull that up I'll share. We have some people that we've been working with. And so recently we just did an avatar of Lex Jillette, who is in a Paralympian. He is an amazing athletes. And we'll be putting out his his avatar soon. We're working with Steve Wang, who's an actor on Hulu, and has done something. He's a comedian and actor. And so we're going to be putting out his avatar and several others in the fall. And then I'd love to show the group here kind of what we've been doing thus far with other avatars so they can get kind of an experience. So perfect.

Scott Whitney: 6:28

Perfect. So we're on your on your Instagram page. Now, there will be some people who were just you were just listening in so we'll need to have some descriptions here. So bring up who put up this, this character?

Giselle Mota: 6:47

Sure, let's describe. So describe on the screen here. What people are seeing is Isaac Harvey is a black man with short black hair, and he's sitting in his wheelchair. He has a white shirt on some jeans and white socks. He has no arms and the feet that he does have are kind of inverted towards his body. And they're covered in white socks. He's seated next to his avatar that is in the same description. The Avatar seated in a white wheelchair. Avatars Black is suited up with our regular, NFTY collective outfit, which is kind of an urban utilitarian kind of cool look. And they got a black beanie with the NFTY collective logo on it. black glasses. Isaac's avatar also has a black beard and moustache because Isaac also has a black beard and moustache along with his short black hair. And this avatars wearing black, a black jumpsuit, which is all connected together. Again, no arms, the feet are inverted in towards each other as well. And that's what we have..

Scott Whitney: 7:53

Excellent, excellent. And we'll move on to say we move on we will get to get to someone else here. So this is one of your your character reveals for for Dr. Tiffany. Janna.

Giselle Mota: 8:11

That's right. That's Tiffany Janna is an interesting one that we wanted to include because our collection includes people who are of different races and ethnicities different gender identities. So Tiffany Dr. Tiffany Jana identifies as non binary. You can see their character actually has their signature blue hair that they like to wear as is a short brown curly art store blue curly hairstyles like a tapered cut, and the avatar dons that same look. This character also has glasses on with a unique design, which is our NFTY logo inside of the glasses. That logo is because Dr. Tiffany Jana has an unseen disability. So like my character also has that because I have dyslexia or neuro divergence that they're definitely changed. Tiffany Jana has a chronic illness. And so you can't really see that and in that in their case. So we wanted to reveal that in these glasses. So all of our characters that have something that you might not be able to see. Well done those those sorts of glasses.

Scott Whitney: 9:14

Okay, excellent. Excellent. Come on, come out. Click the action to will come on. Actually, it might be just as easy just scroll down.

Giselle Mota: 9:28

Click on anything you'd like. Tiffany? Is it Tiffany Yu

Unknown: 9:33

Yes, Tiffany Yu as an Asian American activist, CEO of reversibility, on amazing figure for disability inclusion, has been doing great work in their in her field. And she actually has brachial plexus injury where she acquired her disability after an accident that actually took the life of her father. And now she's dedicated her life to talking about disability inclusion. It's something that in some cultures is taboo. And it's also something kind of sometimes seen as seen as a poor thing right where they have pity. But Tiffany is dispelling all those myths and showing that you can be amazing and powerful. Even if you have if you're a person with a disability that doesn't define, you know, what you're capable of doing or the impact that you can have on the world. So also, so as I mentioned, their character wears a cast over there, I believe their right arm because of the injury to that arm. The arm is is thinner than the other arm and hand because of the injury sustained and Tiffany is an Asian American lead of fair skinned in dark brown, long hair, and the avatar is expressing the same look.

Scott Whitney: 10:51

Excellent, excellent. So but by doing this, you're you're meeting some, some amazing people aren't Yes. I mean, the people that you've met, is there, is there any that you would say, right? Well, these are standout people for any particular reason.

Giselle Mota: 11:13

Yeah, yeah, we have met some interesting people. And I'll tell you that it's been through the project, but it's also been just in the network. Before we started this project, I just had so many amazing people with disabilities that I was connected to already, that I just reached out to them and asked them if they wanted to be a part of this. And they did. So yes, we have met Mary Harman, Mary Harman has taught me some things. She is a Latina, who's based in Hawaii, and is deaf, and also does consulting and information and has these videos that go out teaching people about what to do and how to address people who are deaf. Sure, Avatar actually has a hand up, showing the hi symbol, we plan on being able to animate her character more to be able to do certain things in sign language, when we get to that point, but she's an amazing person. And I'll say this, it's so gracious. The moment that I talked to her the way I'm talking to you here, we jumped on a call. And there was an interpreter on the call the time that we had our first call and was basically signing between her and I, but there was so much I was picking up on without the need of interpreter. It was just like reading body language, understanding some of the nuances. I don't know if it's because we're both Latina. And I was picking up on some of the gestures and some of the things that she was expressing, but an amazing individual. Yeah, so that's, that's one and, and really just people as well have approached me from across corporations, organisations that you know, some are have disabilities and some don't. And just the level of interest that people have to want to do good, because maybe some of them own technology, but it hasn't been very inclusive yet of people with disability. So they're asking like, how can we partner with you? How can we collaborate? What can we design together? What can we do? And I love it. I love those those people that I've been meeting.

Scott Whitney: 13:05

Excellent, excellent.

Giselle Mota: 13:08

Oh an individual named Scott that runs this All4 Inclusion podcasts is another great. Yeah, great person I've met along the way how to throw that in there.

Scott Whitney: 13:20

That's what I was looking for at the beginning. So this is someone else. Victoria, she's been on the podcast before. So tell me a little bit about Victoria's

Giselle Mota: 13:37

Victoria. Victoria is a fashion as a fashion designer and even a consultant in disability inclusive fashion, loved what she's doing. And what she's all about. She is based over there in the UK, actually, so is Isaac Harvey, who you saw a moment ago. So her avatar we wanted to include the cane that she uses she she is can often be seen walking around with the cancer avatar has a white cane in hand. She also wears her signature red lipstick, and she loves monochromatic colours like black. So we made sure to feature that and wear some earrings because she's fashionable. And so we wanted to include that in her avatar as well.

Scott Whitney: 14:15

Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, you mentioned Isaac, I had a half an hour chat with Isaac this morning. So yeah, so I mentioned to him that we was we was on the call. So how many? How many of these avatars have you created roughly so far?

Giselle Mota: 14:39

We have like 20 At the moment, and then we have more coming under production because we've had a really overwhelming amount of people kind of reaching out to us to ask us if they could we can build their characters as well. So we have our collection is going about to double by falling winter this year.

Scott Whitney: 14:59

Excellent. Excellent. And you've had and I'm gonna keep switching into different things on your, on your Instagram, so So you've had some, some very good sort of reviews and different things like that over here in the UK as well as I assume over with yourself as well in the in the US. How's that kind of been for yourself? You know, the interests are shown in this.

Giselle Mota: 15:26

Yeah. It's been interesting because people when they talk about it's a mixed review, but most of it is very positive. But the mixed review comes in that web three and the metaverse because when I said web three, when we create these avatars, it's not just like a cute little avatar and it's just sit there and we just create Due to drying, right, it's actually becomes in a non fungible token for the people who own them. So we gift an NFT to the users or the people who represent these characters. So in many cases, you know, this is new people are owning NF T's and trading them and doing all that. It's a new world based on blockchain and digital currencies. And a lot of times either people with disabilities haven't owned one, traditionally, because to even go through the process of getting on an NFT market, it's not the most accessible like it's it's not user friendly to people with disabilities for the most part. And it's not inclusive of people, like you don't see a lot of artwork out there and representation of people with disabilities. There are some, there are some great ones, actually. But you don't see something like this. And so that's one way in which we've gotten to web three. And web three is a world where there's a lot of scepticism, there's either hype or scepticism. And the same thing with the metaverse. So people are either all into it and excited about it and getting into experiences. And then others are like, let's stop talking about a virtual world and just talk about the physical world, we have enough issues here in the physical world, we should be paying attention to that, which I don't disagree with either camp of thought, I'm more about, hey, if this experience is here, and it's gonna keep on evolving and growing, then I want to be rebellious enough to make sure that I pull along with me, people with disabilities to ensure that they are included in the experience. And so that's why we take these avatars, and we're creating them into like, augmented reality experiences, games, like all kinds of things that people can interact with. So mixed reviews of all around and a lot of discussions around like, what is the metaverse? You know, capabilities of doing anything good for for disability inclusion, or even just diversity, equity inclusion at all. And same with web three? And so those are the conversations that we have a lot. It's not just about the artwork. It's more about like the impact.

Scott Whitney: 17:44

Yeah, yeah. Excellent. And so you see, kind of in the metaverse, and oh, you know, I might be going down a bit of a rabbit hole here with this one. You know, you see people got their characters and they can walk up, walk up steps, etc. You know, is there any, any place at the moment where people in a wheelchair go up a ramp along sider steps? Is that something that sort of coming in?

Giselle Mota: 18:16

Yes. So more people are thinking about that and designing experiences, where, even though it's not you physically doing the action of having to walk, but they're like, You know what, if we're going to create a space, we're going to take out stairs, and we're going to make it you know, completely accessible to anyone and instead of having to go up even a ramp, maybe you just teleport yourself, you know, the human imagination can come in, you just teleport yourself from one room to the other room without having a walk or rolling wheelchair. So there's a lot of talk around things like that as well. Yes.

Scott Whitney: 18:48

So he's eleporting accessible to absolutely, absolutely everyone. And I guess when we're looking at at something like the metaverse, which is fictional, why can't we? Why can't it be completely fiction? Absolutely. So what what are we seeing here then

Giselle Mota: 19:15

Here you're seeing a building in Paris, France and signage that was talking about, it has our book two characters one is me sitting next to Isaac Harvey, we're both wearing some lime green glasses, and a lime green jumpsuit. And we're having a tan beanie on. So it was referring to Viva tech is the largest European Conference in tech that happens every year, we had the privilege of being featured there this year. So when guests walked up to the signage of Viva tech, it was a large sign. And by the way, this is a conference that has had speakers such as Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg and a bunch of other people throughout the years, regardless of how you feel about those two individuals, but we were there at the, at the conference, through augmented reality with our characters. So when somebody walked up to the signage, and it has huge sign that said Viva tech letters, you were able to take out your mobile device, put it over the sign, and you would see Isaac Harvey's character was there and you wouldn't be able to see him pop up like in front of you and you'd be able to in like life size, and you'd be able to walk around and maybe take a selfie picture with it or do whatever you wanted. And it was a pretty cool opportunity and experience.

Scott Whitney: 20:29

Excellent, excellent. So what was it that what drove you to, to get involved?

Giselle Mota: 20:40

Yeah. You know, the past couple of years. We With everything that happened in the world, even beyond the pandemic, and also the pandemic really highlighted the fact that a lot of people are, are, are underrepresented and a lot of people are not included in certain things. So we saw how many people with disabilities had certain challenges that other people didn't have during the pandemic. And the you know, lack of access into things, lack of consideration of people with disabilities that needed like, even for example, people with suffered regular migraine headaches and needed to get a botox injection to alleviate those things, weren't able to get the treatment that they need it because it wasn't considered essential, right? It wasn't considered one of the things that you really needed to do at that time was like elective. So the pandemic racial issues around the world, all the things that started coming up, all of that started to make me think about like, personally ask myself, What am I doing with my time? How am I exerting my energy to help and make a difference, right, instead of just getting angry, frustrated, depressed about the state of the world? How can I take that energy and focus it in on something positive? So I created nifty collective, I started to think about my own identity. I'm an afro Latina, a woman of colour, I have an unseen disability of dyslexia. And I'm like, Okay, I'm going to be true to me. And I'm going to be true to my heart of wanting to like help other people to advance forward and be able to have opportunities. And so I made this because I see that web three and Metaverse aren't going anywhere, it's going to continue to advance as tech that keeps on growing. It's actually based a lot of times on artificial intelligence and different emerging tech. And, and since I'm a geek and a nerd, I thought, you know, how can I merge both of these loves and do something good, and the project came to be?

Scott Whitney: 22:32

And it is, you know, NFTY is very diverse, because, you know, what do you find is that, I mean, especially over here, I find that companies or businesses will say, right, we're, you know, we're diverse, because we've got an equal amount of men, we've got an equal amount of woman, or, you know, half of our board are of colour, or, you know, but it's not everything. Yeah. When, when you've got everything.

Giselle Mota: 23:06

That's true. That is true. Really well put, I think, you know, we often forget that disability is diversity, we forget that like, people often consider that as like the last thing on their list, if they ever start talking about disability. And then when they do talk about it, they talk about it in terms of accessibility, it's like, there's more to it, we want to be represented in your tech experiences, we want to see ourselves in those experiences, we want to be a part of those experience and how they're shaped, right. In fact, we have, we're working soon with a producer of this. It's part of a large technology organisation, and they're creating this gallery, this art gallery that's virtual, we are going to put our avatars and characters inside of that gallery. And we're going to make sure that people who are blind or low vision can enjoy that experience by making it accessible and descriptive enough for people that if you can't see and you don't have sight, you can still enjoy a virtual art gallery. Right. So there's there's a lot of opportunities for us to include disability along the way with the project.

Scott Whitney: 24:11

Excellent, excellent. So what are you kind of, you know, apart from doubling the size of your collection, or collective do you call

Giselle Mota: 24:24

him either one, it's a collective of people, but it's a collection of the art that we're doing. So, either one. So, aside from doubling that was next on the horizon. So next, is we've gotten approached by a lot of organisations who want to see these characters come to life and help us bring them to life. So what we're going to be doing is focusing on developing games in different formats, games, where we can educate people who don't have disabilities on how to interact with whether it's our character with quadriplegia or character who is have muscular dystrophy and has to wear trachea, you know, attach that all times or whether it's interacting with a blind individual, or all sorts of wide variety of people who representative in our characters. Often people don't realise like, what should you do? How do you approach what do you say like if you were to serve someone, what would you do? Right? So we're coming up with different ways in which to develop gaming experiences. And also we want those gaming experiences to be accessible for people with disabilities to enjoy as well. So we're working on that, coming up with as many ways as possible to enter into Metaverse and web three experiences. So we're taking the whole NFT thing and we're trying to see What do we do as a next iteration of that? How do we create immersive experiences? How do we do like, more augmented reality experiences virtual reality experience? Like how do we go further and beyond? Right? So we're working on that now we have a lot of speaking, engagement and opportunities coming up where people are asking us to present our characters. And we've been doing it already in conferences with big corporations, events, where they want to hear about what we're doing, but how they should be thinking about disability inclusion in tech, too. So yeah, all that is kind of on the horizon right now, have a few big publishing groups, the one that you pulled up earlier was PC Magazine, but we have others as well, that are just, you know, on standby waiting for us to give him a story to continue talking about nifty collective. So that's gonna be on the works as well. Yeah.

Scott Whitney: 26:33

Yeah. Excellent. So I mean, aside from sort of leading the way yourself, you're pulling others along with you. I guess you're, you're you're pulling some, some small businesses, but some large businesses as well, some corporations that have maybe turns a blind eye to it. And then now realising that, if we don't do something about this, we're going to be the ones left behind.

Giselle Mota: 27:06

Right. And it's interesting that a lot of companies, like you just mentioned, haven't been paying attention to disability as diversity. And even just recently, there's even the nest, some certain groups approached in from the NASDAQ and others to try to push it as, hey, as part of the requirements that companies look at for the diversity, equity inclusion, please account for disability. And so we're seeing it from legislation all the way down, there was a legislation that came up the other day around accessibility for virtual reality. If you can't, you know, provide disability inclusion in a virtual reality experience, right, then then you need to reframe and restructure how you're doing. So that's even coming down from the top down. And so we'll see more to come. And I'm glad that that that's moving in that direction.

Scott Whitney: 27:54

Excellent. Excellent. So, a little bit more just to touch on before we, before we, you know, turn off. Tell us a little bit about your menu. You mentioned earlier that you've got dyslexia? How was that impacting you in school and your career?

Giselle Mota: 28:16

Yeah, a lot. I think, you know, to this day, sometimes I still say some things backwards, because I don't know if I have to probably get further analysis on everything. Because I don't know if it's just the dyslexia alone. It can be a little bit of like a disparate, like a speech as well, that kind of comes into play. But sometimes I find myself thinking backwards. And so my speech will come out that way, as well. Like I'll flip words. But when I was a kid, I really thought that I was subpar. I thought that I was not intelligent. I thought I was dumb and unable to do things. I couldn't capture the information that my teacher would say, I thought I got it at the moment, and then I'd go back home be like, what? But the teacher said this, they're like, No, that's, that wasn't that I had a lot of problems with, like reading, retention, and reading comprehension. So But thankfully, with time when good teachers, a good mother, you know, people who believed in me along the way, I was able to kind of turn it into something that was a skill and a strength of mine, where I developed another sense of a perception or perspective, where now it's in my benefit to see things in a different way, where now I have a more holistic approach, I could look back and see things that sometimes other people don't. And it's like, it's dyslexic thinking. And it's a skill set that LinkedIn actually just put as a an official skill when you go and put your skills. I'm a good resume writer, I'm a good salesperson, I have dyslexic thinking is now as a visual skill set. So I learned that with time.

Scott Whitney: 29:44

Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. And then you know how to do it. How How does it impact you on that, so day to day life? So if you wish to go to, to a restaurant would impact you in any way there?

Giselle Mota: 30:02

Yes, I often see things reversed even on the menu. And I'll go to probably say it that way, as well. So I gave a TEDx talk some years ago, and I spoke about how I went to a Starbucks. And when I went to go do my order, I said it completely backwards. And the person's like, Yeah, we don't have that. And I was like, but I'm like looking at the manual trying to say what it is that I want, but I flipped it around and it happens a lot. So yeah, on day to day life, little things like that happened that it really to me are laughable at this point. You know, I know what I'm trying to say. But at work and other things that I tried to do. I already know that I need tools, as smart as I can come across as being and I think I am very intelligent. At this point. I believe that I didn't believe it as a kid. But I need tools like like grammar checks. I mean, spellcheck, I need something to help me put my sentences structure my sentences in a way where I'm not thinking backwards and putting my sentences structured in a weird way, in a structured backwards way. So I need those tools and I use them, I use them, especially if I'm when I like, really have to send out a message to my company or client or whomever I really, I can't just type it up and send it, I need to type it up, have something, review it, reread it, and then send it. So that's, you know, the kind of extra work that I do behind the scenes that people don't see.

Scott Whitney: 31:19

Yeah, and I guess, if if your business listening to this, and you've got an employee, or you're an at an interview stage, and someone mentioned to you that, that they're dyslexic, those tools are very easily available, just so the person can come in, feel secure, and just work, because

Giselle Mota: 31:45

don't give that individual 150 pages of a handbook of something that you expect them to read. Because, at least for me, and I think a lot of people with dyslexia, they prefer audio, they prefer to like listen to something and if it is, in writing, make sure that the font has enough space in between. And there's a dyslexic approved font that you could use on your documents to help somebody really kind of taking the information. Okay, excellent. And does does paper colour support you at all? Hmm, I haven't noticed that. I have not noticed. But you know what I think I'm always drawn to minimalistic things. I'm drawn to plain. So there's a lot of distraction on the page. And if it was like a colour that's too vibrant, if it's a pattern in the background, I need something as plain as possible, be so that my eyes that already have a distraction when I'm trying to read like, it'll skip and go to different parts. I mean, something very seamless, very straight line, and then I can take that information and good question. Never never thought of that.

Scott Whitney: 32:50

Yeah, some of this is going to keep you on on point. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Okay, so before we before we wrap up, then you know, what sort of message whether it be regarding dyslexia, whether it be regarding web three, Metaverse, nfts. Any other sort of words that we've talked about that I don't understand. Any other message? Any last message for anyone listening today?

Giselle Mota: 33:22

Absolutely. Look, technology has always and will always continue to evolve 10 years ago, when so I'll give you a quick one so that you have something that you're like, okay, but web one was the first iteration of the internet. And so it was when you know, we're like, you have mail, like all that kind of stuff like that, like that was that was the first iteration of the internet, old school. Then came the second web two, right? That was web one. Web two is like you're on social media. You're over here watching YouTube, like you're doing all the things, right? Like we've always interacted with the internet, web three, is what we're talking about now, where people can now not only upload a video on YouTube, for example, and YouTube owns your video, right? Or Instagram owns some of your years, those pictures and those things they monetize off of it and all that web three is a world where you own your there's not a middleman, you own it. It's based on a blockchain. So that means that it's always authenticated to you, you uploaded a video, you're the owner, you want to monetize of it. That's that's on you to do. And so also a web Metaverse is just like we've been building for many, many years, virtual experiences. Now we're just finding new ways to interact with those virtual experiences and make them more normal. So now, you know instead of only experienced something with inexpensive goggles set that might even give you like, dizziness and motion sickness. It's not just about virtual reality anymore. It's about augmented reality. It's about different experiences you can have just from the comfort of your computer. Now all that to say, my last word is because tech is going to continue to evolve. We need to make sure that everybody gets some participate in it. And my everybody definition for this purpose is people with disabilities. I want to make sure they're not left out. And that's it.

Scott Whitney: 35:10

Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you very much. So yeah, so thank you very much for listening today. There will be some links in the show notes. So we'll make sure that you've got the ability to link him with Giselle in the show notes, to see NFTY collective, Instagram, etc. Anything else that Gisele thinks you might want to see will be in the show notes. So so click there for the links Thank you very, very much for listening. And Giselle, thank you for joining us.

Giselle Mota: 35:51

Thank you. It's awesome.