#20 Dismissed for having a disability during Covid Lockdown !!

Let's talk about inclusion, let's talk about disability.

Ali Hemsley thought she was working for a business that valued inclusion and that cared about staff with a disability. Unfortunately for Ali, the business didn't value inclusion and didn't value her and her disability.

She shares how she took her employer to caught on her own - and won. But that was just the start - even though the business are still publicly saying that it's an inclusive environment.

Ali also talks about her trip to watch the Lionesses at the Euro's and a huge own goal off the pitch, and a red card to disabled supporters. (Let's hope VAR intervenes with this one).

Behind the scenes for this episode will be loaded on to subscription site, www.patreon.com/all4inclusion

To get in contact with Ali, please use the following link Ali Hemsley | LinkedIn

 

Voiceover for intro and outro by Jennie Eriksen | LinkedIn

Music granted free of charge very kindly by Music: https://www.purple-planet.com . The track is called Hope and Inspire.

Transcript

Scott Whitney: 0:47

Hello, and welcome to the next episode of the All 4 Inclusion pod. Thank you very much for joining us again. Today with me, I've got someone called Ali Hensley. Ali, thank you very much for joining us.

Ali Hemsley: 1:01

It is my pleasure. I'm so excited.

Scott Whitney: 1:04

Excellent. So it's a couple of things that I'd like to speak to you about today. But I guess, really, we've got at the minute, we've got the woman's euros football over in the country. And I took my daughters unintentionally, to a fan zone this weekend. My youngest two daughters wanted to get their ears pierced. So off we went and the bus pulled up and we was by a fan zone. So they got their faces painted, played some table football and, and enjoyed themselves there for about an hour before we went to get their ears pierced. And you've been to a match very recently. Is that right?

Ali Hemsley: 1:56

Yeah, I've actually been to three I went to all of the games at the Brighton Amex. I took the opportunity.

Scott Whitney: 2:03

Excellent. So which which teams did you see

Ali Hemsley: 2:05

So I saw where you're testing me now. England there? Vs Norway, Austria Vs Norway, and then England Vs Austria. That's what it is.

Scott Whitney: 2:18

Oh, brilliant. So you got to see England play a couple of times, which sounds really good.

Ali Hemsley: 2:24

Yeah, it was amazing. And to see them go through, you know, top of the group. It was that last game was so intense. Yeah, it was it was heart wrenching. But it was an incredible atmosphere.

Scott Whitney: 2:35

Oh, excellent. Excellent. Now I understand. There was a there was a slight issue at the stadium. Are you alright, just to tell us about that.

Ali Hemsley: 2:45

Yeah, of course. So in the third game that I went to, I was actually in the upper stand, the other two had been in the lower stand. So I was in the upper stand, you go up a lot of stairs to get that. First off, they don't tell you that. It was quite tiring. But obviously get up there get to our seats. It's all great. I think it was at halftime, but I'm gonna you know, go to the bathroom. So when to go to the toilets. And there's this massive line, massive, massive queue for the women's toilets. I've got Crohn's disease. So obviously I'm like, okay, not sure how that feels, how that's gonna go. Might need to use a disabled toilet. And you know, I've got my radar key. I've got my little sunflower lanyard. So stroll over to the steward with this out and I was like, Oh, could you tell me where the disabled toilet is, please. And he looks at me goes, there's not one upstairs. What do you mean, there's not one upstairs. And when I say we're upstairs, I'm talking. Probably like six floors upstairs. So it's not like you can't just casually stroll down. And you can't do that. So I was like, What do you mean? He's like, Well, we don't get disabled people upstairs. I just looked at him and went, what? Disabled people can't go upstairs. And I was like, I'm disabled. And I'm here up up the stairs. And he was like, no, no, typically, disabled people can't go upstairs. And I was just like, okay, and then there was no resolution to it. There was no like, Don't worry, I'll take you to the front of the line, or what do you need? He was like, Oh, I can take you down in the lift. But I've got to wait till the game starts again. And I was like, well, that's not helpful at all is it, especially when you're holding a card. That's literally like telling them you know, I can't wait to use the bathroom. I need to get in one soon. I had no choice to just stand there and hope that everything was okay.

Scott Whitney: 4:25

Yeah, that's, that's terrible, isn't it? And I think should people more be you know, because when, when they're talking about disabled, seating and things, it's actually wheelchair seating really, or, or limited, limited mobility seating. But there's a lot more to disability than wheelchair users and limited mobility. So is it something that that football clubs in general need to and any sport in general needs to kind of rephrase their disabled area to say this is for wheelchair users and limited mobility? Maybe then, I guess you put in maybe people in who, who might have anxiety issues and things like that into into this area. And then, you know, aside from that, you still got people who could maybe use disabled pricing if there's different pricing structure for disabled people and obviously, make sure you've got the facilities for everyone everywhere.

Ali Hemsley: 5:42

Yeah, and this is the thing that it just blew my mind. And you know, we're at this event, which is incredible in terms of like bringing the women's sport forward. And it's like, that seems really inclusive. It seemed like a really inclusive environment, there was a lot more families, children, stuff like that. And then it's like, oh, but disabled people can't go upstairs. So we don't need to worry about that. And it's just this thing of this binary perception of disability. And, you know, they're only thinking about, you know, what the typical disabled logo looks like, you know, a wheelchair you that. And obviously, that's a part of it. But when you look at sort of the range of disability, it's so huge. And there's so many reasons why people might need to use a disabled toilet, other than being a wheelchair user or having limited mobility.

Scott Whitney: 6:27

Yeah, definitely, definitely. So you've touched upon, you've got Crohn's disease. So when was you diagnosed with that?

Ali Hemsley: 6:39

So I was only diagnosed with that in January or February of this year, so only sort of six months ago.

Scott Whitney: 6:46

Wow. Okay. So quite, quite recently. But did you have I know, that was obviously a diagnosis, but was there kind of the symptoms and things like that prior to it?

Ali Hemsley: 6:57

Yeah. So when I was 17, so 11 years ago, I was diagnosed with ME and fibromyalgia. And that's something that now I look back on. And I've since had conversations with like my IBD doctors, and it's like, Was that the right diagnosis? Is it still a diagnosis that fits me at the moment we're going with it was the correct diagnosis at the time. But probably, I've had Crohn's for the past seven years. And it's just been mixed. You know, I had a lot of symptoms, sort of what, what looks to me like flares on and off for the past seven years. And during that time, I was just told, Oh, it's just anxiety, oh, it's just your ME, various things like that, oh, you're just a woman. You know, all of these things that were told, and so I never really pursued it. I did have a spate. The year before last, where I had a stool sample done, and my inflammation levels were off the chart. But they didn't. They said, Oh, you need to get retested. But they didn't explain to me, you need to get retested because they're high. And it could be an IBD. They just went, oh, we need to retest you. And at that point, I was waiting for hip surgery. So to do the test, I had to be off all like ibuprofen and things like that, for about four weeks, when you're waiting for hip surgery, that's just not viable. So for me, I was like, Oh, it's fine. It's probably all right. And then yeah, end of last year, ended up in and out of hospital a little bit and then got the diagnosis of Crohn's early this year.

Scott Whitney: 8:30

Okay. Okay. And, and you've mentioned the sort of you got ME and fibromyalgia. And so when was when did both of those really kind of start impacting you?

Ali Hemsley: 8:46

Yeah, so when I was 17, I'd literally just turned 17. So 11 years ago, and I had a virus, and then I just didn't recover. And obviously, we're seeing a lot of that now. But it just absolutely hit me like a tonne of bricks. Like I was very active physically. I had a job literally doing like a paper, I was delivering leaflets at the time. So I was walking miles and miles every day, loved all of that. And I went from that to sleep in like 20 hours a day, within the space of like two weeks, I couldn't like I struggled to get out of bed, I got to a point that I struggled to even lift a glass of water because it felt so heavy to me and my muscles were just so tired. So that first six months was really tough. And that's when I was still trying to do things. I was going into my second year of college or going into the second year of my A levels. And I just got to a point by Christmas that I was like, I can't physically go anymore. It's too much to physically go. So I had to start doing my final year of my A levels from home. And that gave me obviously a lot more time a lot more support. But equally, it was so isolating and so hard, especially when you're feeling so tired. It really plays on your emotions as well.

Scott Whitney: 10:01

How did that impact on your mental health?

Ali Hemsley: 10:04

Oh, so badly. Like, I think I was put on antidepressants pretty quickly. I think it must have only been sort of three to six months after my diagnosis. I was put on antidepressants because I just couldn't, I couldn't cope mentally. But my doctor was great. Because I think at that age, it feels like this massive deal. You know, you're being put on these antidepressant like what does that mean for the rest of my life? And he just looked at me and he just went, you're in pain all the time. And I was like, yeah, and he was like, nobody can be in pain all the time and feel happy and I was like, okay, and obviously like now my attitude has changed a little bit towards that because I'm in pain most of the time now and I still am pretty happy. But at the time that It's what I needed, I needed to know that it wasn't something wrong with me. It was my experience that was causing this problem. And that was okay. And that was normal.

Scott Whitney: 10:54

Yeah. And do you are you still on antidepressants now or have you come off those? No, so I was on and off them probably, maybe like six years or something like that, until like my early 20s, I was sort of on and off them for years, I just found that they didn't really work. I tried some other medication. So I tried like gabapentin, which is sort of working with the neurons in your brain that it's often used for epilepsy, found that didn't really work. And then it just kind of got to a place that wasn't on anything, I started looking a lot more fitness, nutrition, working on sleep working on sort of all the good things that you know, you should do. But you know, when you're younger, you probably don't do. And that has helped a lot. And then as well, since my Crohn's diagnosis, since I've started the treatment for Crohn's disease, I am so much better. Yeah. And so, you've mentioned sleep, nutrition, exercise, etc. Which of those because obviously, those can be used for lots of different conditions, which of those do you think helped you the most?

Ali Hemsley: 12:03

It's a really tough one. Because, for me, it's fitness, I know I can, I can feel the difference in my body when I am able to be active or when I'm not able to be active. And I know that for me, I've got to a place now that fitness really helps me. But I know the first sort of six months to a year that I was ill if I'd have tried to go out for a walk, if I did try to exercise, it would have put me back so much. So it's this real complex relationship that I have with it, that I know that it can be so beneficial. But there's been times where I've had to be very careful just how much I do. And I also always try and really, like promote to people that fitness isn't just this quick wins. Like, there's a lot of people that exercise isn't accessible for it's not viable for and you know, can make your conditions worse, I'm always very wary of almost promoting it. But for me, the mental health benefit that exercise gives me is through the roof.

Scott Whitney: 13:01

Yeah. And, and then when we're looking, you know, 17, early 20s, it's, it's really kind of this is a period of your life when people are wanting to go out lots and do lots of things, how did it impact you with friendship groups.

Ali Hemsley: 13:22

So I'm gonna be completely honest with you, because I think honestly, it's the best policy at 17, 18, 19, 20 I did not accept my honest, and I actively worked against my body, because I just wanted to be a quote - unquote, normal teenager, you know, I wanted to go out, I wanted to do all these things. And so I would go on nights out. And then I would literally sleep until 5pm, the next day, wake up, start drinking with my dinner, and you know, just go out again. And I look back at it now. And it's awful. But I mean, that's what like university, that's what the culture is there. And it's not really, or it wasn't at the time that I went, it wasn't really accepted that, oh, you've got this illness, you've got this disability, let us support you and let us do different things. It was either you come out clubbing, or you're not really in our friendship group. So I think I did a lot, which negatively impacted me both physically and my mental health as well. You know, being on antidepressants and drinking is not the best idea. But I think I did a lot to try and stay in that friendship group. But as I've got older now I've realised that actually you want friends that you can be yourself around, you can be open about how you're feeling and what you're going through. And you can do different things, you know, you don't have to always drink, you can go out for a nice walk, you can just sit at home and watch a film. And I think as you get older, you realise that they're the best friendships?

Scott Whitney: 14:48

Yeah, definitely, definitely. So I guess kind of the main reason why we're here is to is to talk about how your conditions have impacted your employment and the support you've had, or lack of support. So can you just start off giving us a little brief kind of introduction, so that if that's okay,

Ali Hemsley: 15:20

yeah, of course, I think there's a few things I know the thing you're thinking of already. But prior to that when I was at university, I did a placement. I was doing an economics degree. And I did a placement year at Goldman Sachs investment bank. Incredible it was such it was such a coveted position to get and you know, getting it you're like wow, I'm, I feel great. I've done this amazing thing, amazing achievement. And then I very quickly realised that You cannot work in investment banking, or at least you couldn't at the time, if you've got an energy limiting condition, oh my gosh, it made me so ill. And you know, there was an expectation that you should be doing at least 12 hour work days. And when you're doing that, and then commuting to London, it was kind of like you leave your house at 6am get home at maybe 9 or 10 at night. And when you've got chronic fatigue, that just does not work. So I very quickly learned that that route, and following my degree in that aspect was not going to work for me. So then I did some sort of self employment for a while. And then in March 2020, I got a full time role for a company in marketing and social media, because I wanted to use that I wanted to buy a house, I thought it's a bit more stable. And I finally got to that point, where I was like, I think my health is good enough now, to be able to work full time for someone else with the set hours, I can manage that. So it felt like this massive achievement. For me this massive full circle thing. I've come from this place, but actually now I'm almost able to do the quote unquote, normal work, you know, so it felt like an amazing opportunity. And then, obviously, the pandemic came about, which only started kind of really two days after I started working there. So I worked two days in the office, and then was working from home. And then during the subsequent few months, I was promoted to Head of Marketing. So I was like, this is incredible. Despite everything that's going on, I'm doing really well. And then I was buying my house really excited. And then a week before I moved into my house, so a week before we properly like exchanged and everything. And I got a phone call from someone who was inquiring about a marketing role now that I'm head of marketing, I don't know about any roles in my team. That's a bit weird. So I looked up online, and it was very, very similar to my job. Right? Yeah. So I had this conversation, I rang up my manager, who was the founder of this company, and the crux of the conversation was you're not coming into the workplace. So it's not working for us. And I was like, COVID, massive, you know, and I was like, I became ill from a virus. I don't know how it's gonna affect me at this point. The government advice for people's health conditions was so confusing. You know, even like ME charities, fibromyalgia charities didn't know how it would affect people. We were in such early days.

Scott Whitney: 18:18

What month was this? Roughly?

Ali Hemsley: 18:20

This was a week before the second lockdown. October 2020. And so a week before the second lockdown. And then I was told that I was losing my job to redundant thing. But it was clear, it was clear to me that it wasn't redundancy, there was no need to make these redundancies, I was the only person being considered for redundancy, no one else in my team, any of this stuff. So I was dismissed from my job literally, days after moving into my new house. And I raised a grievance, because I said, you know, I feel that it's because I'm working from home, and I need to do that because my disability and they went no, no, no, nothing to do with that, even though I had so much evidence. So I went through the Employment Tribunal process, and then in March this year, so it's about, you know, 18 months, it's a really long process, from start to finish. It takes a long time to go to tribunal. And I represented myself and I won on my claim of disability discrimination arising from disability. So the judge and the two panel members, they agreed that the reason that I was dismissed, was because I needed to work from home due to my disability at the time, obviously, because of COVID. And that that was not fair or proportionate. That kind of it just wasn't fair, it was against employment law. And that wasn't a proportionate outcome that like it shouldn't have been done. That wasn't fair. If they needed me to come in. There was many other ways to do that, and to facilitate that discussion, and they said that they had extremely poor employment practice.

Scott Whitney: 19:58

Yeah. Okay. And so before, you know, let's say the first kind of chunk, the first lockdown period, everything go okay, there no, no issues at all.

Ali Hemsley: 20:14

It was, it was a little bit of a constant thing. You know, it was every so often we get a message. Can you come back into the workplace next week? And it was like, No, the government advice is that we stay at home, you know, we're in a lockdown. We should be staying at home. And then it was, Well, how long do you think this is going to last? And it's like, I don't know. I'm not the government. I can't predict that. I've got to go with the advice. So every few weeks, I would get this message that's like, you need to come in now and then I would have to remind them I'm Got this disability? This is what it is. This is how it could affect me. And I go, okay, and then a couple of weeks later try again.

Scott Whitney: 20:53

Yeah. And what sort of size business are we? Are we talking about here?

Ali Hemsley: 21:05

Yeah, less than 50. headcount. But global business.

Scott Whitney: 21:09

Yeah. Okay. So I mean, the first thing that kind of springs to my mind is, what sort of message is that sending to your clients? Because, you know, one in five, one in four people have a disability. I mean, that's just from a business perspective. You then got to look at all your employees, what sort of message is that sending to the rest of your employees who, let's face it might just about be about to get a diagnosis themselves? Yeah. So what message does it send to your family? When, you know, no one knows what's around the corner. So yeah, so So Okay, so what's happened since the since the court case?

Ali Hemsley: 22:14

Wow. So I mean, the first thing that happened, which kind of touches upon what you just said, that is that the day that I won my case, the day that I won, my claim was international women's day in March. And they posted a picture of their female employees saying that together, we can make the world free from discrimination and bias. So I obviously screenshotted that and have had a good laugh about that. Yeah. Yeah, it was ridiculous. And it it was just such a disheartening thing, I think, for me to see that a company that has treated me so badly and has, you know, lost this claim employment tribunal been found to have broken the law. And they're still promoting these ethics, which I don't think they have.

Scott Whitney: 23:03

Yeah, I mean, I've got one of our sponsors is a, it's a guy called Alastair Swindlehurst. He owns a HR business called EZ HR. Now, he has co hosted an episode with me, which is due to go out, will be out the week before this one goes out. So it will be out in two days time in reality, but obviously, it would be last week if you're hearing this now. That was a mouthful wasn't it? He's, he says, and he says this quite a lot. Something that really bugs him when it comes to inclusion is and he always uses the example of International Women's Day. So International Women's Day, right? Anyone that's female, let's, let's get you in this room. Let's take a picture of you. Let's put it on our social media. And that's the only thing for the this year we are going to do about international or about, about women. About women. It seems like very much a tick box kind of process by this by this business. Okay, so so then what happened after, after their, their social media post about our International Women's Day?

Ali Hemsley: 24:34

I'm really sorry. If you hear my dog barking, by the way, I think my doorbell just

Scott Whitney: 24:38

worries, no worries at all.

Ali Hemsley: 24:42

So after that they had so after that post, there was sort of 14 day period in which I was meant to get the money that they had, obviously the tribunal had decided they should give me there's this 14 day period. I think that ended middle of April because it had to be after the judgement was officially sent out. And then I emailed them and they said, Oh, the company's insolvent we can't pay you. So I looked obviously insolvent means they're not trading. So I look on their website, they're still trading, nothing happens. So okay, so then the next option is you go through the government penalty enforcement process. So went through that, and that's a again, I think, 28 days or 14 days, it send them a notice and they say you've got this amount of time to pay otherwise we'll you know, give you this penalty, I think is up to about 5000 pound penalty, and then we might name and shame you. So go through that. Nothing. Okay. Speak to the government penalty enforcement people and they're like, we've we've emailed them We've spoken to them, they're not responding. Okay, cool. So it got to a point that I kept trying to reach out to them, you know, and say this, and I wasn't getting anything back. So I said, Okay, I'm going to share this. Now I'm just going to share it on my social media because not in, I wasn't sharing it in a way of I want to get my money, even though that is what I was legally owed, I was more like, I want to share this as an experience. So that people know, if they're going through something similar. One, you should and can stand up for yourself. And to it's okay, like, I think we worry so much. And we see it as this big thing, because it is and it feels so personal. And I just thought it really might help someone else to know that I've been through it as well, you know, you can see my life on Instagram, it's very, you know, pretty, it looks nice, all this stuff. But actually, it's okay, the thing that you're going through, which is really horrible and hard, I've been through it as well. And you know, we've come out of it, and just try and use it as a positive experience and give people you know, a bit of hope and a bit of support. Sorry, shared that on my social media. And that then blew up, it went really big, which was incredible. And I had so many messages and comments of support. And it was really nice. And then a few people started commenting on their posts and saying, you know, they're looking at their posts, where they're talking about their ethics, and they're going, you're saying your ethical, you haven't paid this money, what's going on? And that then started them like a discussion really, that prompted them to email me reply to my emails finally, and start discussing it. It took about four weeks of silence on and off from their part, but then I think it was last week, I received the money. So it was exactly 100 days late. I received it.

Scott Whitney: 27:36

Wow. And do you think if you didn't kind of blow things up, throw the the Instagram grenade in there? Do you think they would have paid you?

Ali Hemsley: 27:53

No, definitely not. I was also going through the process of like the High Court enforcement where they essentially send bailiffs in bailiff, we were just waiting on the two week period, they had the signs like sealed writ of control. So they were just waiting two weeks, and then they would have gone in. So thankfully, there is that other option that backup. But I think without that, and without Instagram, I wouldn't have got it.

Scott Whitney: 28:20

So what advice if someone's in that same situation as you? What advice would you give them?

Ali Hemsley: 28:29

I would say one of the things, I mean, just before you even get in that situation that I'm really trying to share this message is the importance of disclosing your disability, I know that for so many of us, we don't say it out of fear that then we will get discriminated against. But if you haven't said it, and if you can't prove that they know, it's going to be really hard to win an employment tribunal. So the first thing that I would say is, Be upfront, be honest, get that on the HR system, and also ask for the support you need. Hopefully, it won't go down this path. And then if it does get as much evidence as you can, like, emails, screenshots, everything like that, just document everything. Make a note of dates, and what happened, just so that you can reflect on them later on if you have to write your witness statement and things like that. And then the other things I would say is there's a really good Facebook group. If you think like employment law advice, or something like that, or employment tribunal support, amazing that gave me so much help. Because the unfortunate thing is that, especially when you've got a disability, you know, you're more likely to financially struggle, you've then just lost your job due to disability or due to discrimination. How do you afford a solicitor or a lawyer, like, it's just not possible, especially for the hours that you need to do. And then if you do win, you're gonna have lost all of what you've got, like what you've learned what you've gained. So for me, I had to represent myself because I just couldn't afford to have someone do it. So I represented myself, which was extremely difficult, like, as much as I would encourage people to try and do that if they can to save money. It's also really hard. And I think it's very emotionally draining. So I would say another one of the biggest things is just to make sure that you have time for yourself, you look after yourself physically and emotionally, and just, you know, there's times it's gonna get really stressful. So just take a moment, like, chill out, lean on your friends and family. And also just know that as I said, it's not you it feels so personal, but it's not you it's

Scott Whitney: 30:35

And it's almost like, copying and pasting what I them. said to someone else earlier today for a completely different situation. But It fits. Like if this has only happened to you. It's one too many times. But it's not. It's, it's, it's, it's happening too often. You know, I couldn't put a number on it, you know, I'm not gonna be able to say it's in the 10s to hundreds to 1000s, whatever. But it's happening too often because one time is too, too much. So, obviously, then you've got ME you've got chronic fatigue. So how was it then representing yourself? Whilst you've got me? I mean, I'm not touching on your fibromyalgia or any of the pain. Which, which again, is something, something else. But how did the ME impact you?

Ali Hemsley: 31:37

It was really hard. I mean, for me, I had prepared so meticulously, like, I had everything, like written on notes or printed out, just so that I could make sure that you know that brain fog didn't affect me that I didn't forget something which was crucial. So I had written out everything that I wanted to say. And then I also took the opportunity to, there's some points where you could submit things in advance. So your closing statements, you can submit a written statement, as well as doing your closing statements orally. So I did that as well, just because that makes sure that if on the day, you are tired or nervous, anything like that, at least you've got that backup, that they're going to read that as well. And then you can just add anything else later on. But for me, it was a great like, it was two day process. It was gruelling, it was so tough. I mean, luckily I say luckily, it wasn't meant to be at the tribunal in Croydon, but it was moved to a virtual hearing actually found that much better, because at least then during the rest breaks, you can literally go rest, like go lie down on your sofa or anything like that you're a little bit more comfortable. But it was really long, and it was so hard. And I think then afterwards, you've had all this adrenaline and all this emotion. And it's just like this big relief. And I think I just collapsed into a puddle.

Scott Whitney: 33:05

So yeah, because that's the one thing because I know, you know, I've got functional neurological disorder, so I can have brain brain fogs as well. And like times where it just feels like my head's just closing in. Yeah, the the thought of having to go through the paperwork in a timely manner, I guess it is in a timely manner as well, isn't it?

Ali Hemsley: 33:32

Yeah, there's a lot of deadlines for all the various things. And the thing was as well, because my ex employer, they didn't have representation. So usually, the way it works is that your representatives would talk to each other. So your solicitors would do the talking with each other. And like when they're, you're preparing the bundle of evidence that's usually would be done by the employer and their solicitor, because they didn't have representation, it actually fell on me to do that, which is really unusual as the claimant. So I actually had this much bigger workload than what most people would have. But the me, I know, in myself that I felt more comfortable having that control, rather than relying on my ex employer to do it and potentially having that worry that it's not going to be done properly. Or, you know, something I've submitted is not going to be in there. So for me, I found it okay. But it was very taxing.

Scott Whitney: 34:28

Yeah, yeah, no, I can imagine I can imagine. So in a in a couple of weeks, I'm going to be interviewing an employment law solicitor, which we should will be fun. And it will be strange for me, because a lot of the conversations I have with people are with people like yourself who I've never spoken to before, apart from five minutes before we pressed record. But Joe, I've known for over 30 years. So I've known him for for a long time. Is there any questions that you would like me to put to Joe?

Ali Hemsley: 35:11

Oh, that's such a good one. I think the thing for me that I've realised is obviously we can see the numbers of cases that we're in or the number of, you know, claims that go to court, but we don't ever truly know the extent of discrimination because so many cases must settle outside of court. I'd love to know if he could take guess at the, you know, take a guess at what percentage settle. You know, how many claims realistically are there that we just don't hear about because they settle or because people really like that they can't do it emotionally. I think that would be so interesting.

Scott Whitney: 35:49

Yeah, yeah. No, I'll ask him that for you. And, and that emotional thing. And we come back, I asked you earlier about sort of mental health, how was your mental health during this period as well,

Ali Hemsley: 36:03

it was really low, it really affected me, I think when it happened, sort of that first six months after losing my job, it was so tough, because it just felt like this massive blow to me, as I said, I was so excited, I was so proud that I got my body to this position where I thought, Great, I can do this. And then to lose the job because of my condition, even though I didn't feel it was affecting my work. You know, it was just that I couldn't physically be there during a pandemic, and during a second lockdown it, it was really heart wrenching. And that really affected my mental health, because I just felt like, my body was letting me down again. And I had to really work on that mindset, and remind myself that that wasn't the case. You know, that wasn't what was going on. It was nothing to do with me, it was all to do with them. But for a long time, after that, I felt really disheartened. And I think as well, obviously, you can't really speak about it openly and publicly at the time, because you don't want to, you know, risk anything damaging your claim. So it felt very isolating. And I think, you know, just being able to then finally speak about it after, you know, almost two years after it happened. It was wonderful, because I could get that support. But also it was up all those feelings of worry and anxiety, and you know, all that sort of all the things that you get when you have experienced discrimination. It's never nice, and it brought all of that backup. Thankfully, you know, it feels a little bit more resolved. Now I've able to kind of put that to the side. I'm getting married in a week. So it's all good. But I think you just can't underestimate how much it will affect your mental health like it. It really made me feel like

Scott Whitney: 37:51

Yeah, yeah. And like you said, you get married in Is it a week? Did you say a week today? Yeah. Wow. Congratulations. So. So yeah, so you would have had to throw in planning of this during the planning of this planning of your wedding during the process as well. So there would have been so much so many plates, you were you were spinning, and it's it's just one thing you didn't want to have to deal with?

Ali Hemsley: 38:27

Yeah, definitely. And as well, like, when I did lose my job, I was waiting for a hip procedure to see whether I needed to have hip surgery. Turns out I did. So I lost my job, had my first hip procedure, started a new job, had hip surgery, like major hip surgery, couldn't walk for a few weeks, had to go back to work because I was like, oh, new job, rush back. They were really nice, thankfully. So yeah, had hip surgery, and then everything else. And then since then, also, since this process died, you know, in and out of hospital, diagnosed with Crohn's planning a wedding. I've also been doing a Masters this year, there's been a lot going on. And I'm actually really looking forward to like, get into September and

Scott Whitney: 39:09

relax. So what do you do? What do you do work wise now, Ali?

Ali Hemsley: 39:17

So I'm now self employed. So the past year, I've been doing a Masters, which I got a scholarship from the Snowden trust for which is incredible. I've been doing a master's. So it's digital media, culture and society, which has been really interesting. And then alongside that, I've just been doing my self employment. So I'm hoping to like ramp that up from September again, which will be really nice. So do content creation for brands, I work with brands, mainly on Instagram content, and then also do like freelance, like social media, digital marketing support, and a little bit of public speaking.

Scott Whitney: 39:50

Excellent. Excellent. So how would if someone's listening to this and going yeah, I really resonate with Ali. So I, you know, I'm looking for someone to look at my Instagram, my content creation, etc. What's the best way for them to get in touch with you and I will be putting links in the show notes. So

Ali Hemsley: 40:13

perfect. Yes. The best place at the minute is probably my LinkedIn. Just Ali Hemsley, I am revamping my website at the minute it's currently under construction. So hopefully by the time this comes out, that will be back up its Ali hemsley.com Or even just comment me on Instagram. I mean, Instagram, Twitter Tiktok mo Ali Hemsley so easy.

Scott Whitney: 40:35

Excellent. Excellent. Yeah, it's nice when you when you can just get everything lined up the same, isn't it?

Ali Hemsley: 40:42

Yeah, it's just literally my name. This is the only problem I'm changing my name when I get married. So I have to keep my old name for work, because no one will know who I am.

Scott Whitney: 40:51

Yeah. Yeah. And then you don't have to worry about changing things. Yeah. Yeah, makes it a lot easier. Okay. So I mean, just to wrap things up, then it's is there any last piece of advice that you would like to give to anyone that's been listening today.

Ali Hemsley: 41:15

I would say, the biggest advice that I can give is, at all times to just listen to yourself, like listen to your body. And I know that sounds so like spiritual, and I'm not a very like spiritual person. But I think if you can get really in tune with your body, like how you feel what you need, that's just gonna make life so much easier. And that's whether you have a disability or not, I think everyone needs to be more in tune to taking care of themselves. Like, I think we've seen over the past couple years, especially how important health is, and how big a worry losing that could be, you know, like me, anyone at any point, could become ill could have a virus could become disabled, all of these things. And by looking after yourself by being in tune with yourself, give yourself what you need, you know, I think we have this attitude, this whole fear of missing out or that No, no, embrace it, embrace missing out. If it means that you're actually going to have more fun, because you'll be at home watching your favourite Netflix show, and you're gonna feel really good the next day, like, it's absolutely fine. Stop putting the pressure on yourself. Just do what makes you happy.

Scott Whitney: 42:24

Excellent. Excellent, thank you. So thank you, everybody, for listening. We have a new Patreon we on sites with so if you want some more behind[ the scenes footage, some of me just ranting about random things. Click there. The episodes on there are a lot sharper. I say sharper, they're a lot shorter. They're about sort of 5 to 10 minute episodes. And and yeah, you know, check those out. Subscribe, pass it on, share it with your friends. But But yeah, so thank you for listening. And Ali thank you very much for coming on and sharing your

Ali Hemsley: 43:08

Thank you for having me. .