The All 4 Inclusion Pod

#25 ADHD and me - Finding myself after being late diagnosed

October 26, 2022 Scott Whitney Season 2 Episode 9
The All 4 Inclusion Pod
#25 ADHD and me - Finding myself after being late diagnosed
Show Notes Transcript

Kirsty Hayward has diagnosed late with ADHD. In this podcast she tells us how ADHD has impacted her life and what it would have meant to have been diagnosed sooner.

Kirsty helps business create and accessible and inclusive workspace for their employees. There is a lot more to this than the physical environment you need to ensure you have inclusive policies and an inclusive culture too.

I learnt a lot from talking to Kirsty and I hope you do too.

Kirsty can be contacted using the links below. Some of the direct links to her blogs are on her Linktree

(1) Kirsty Hayward ⭐️ | LinkedIn

@KirstyHayward | Instagram | Linktree

Workplace Wellbeing | Kirsty Hayward Workplace Wellbeing Consultancy

Voiceover for intro and outro by Jennie Eriksen | LinkedIn

Music granted free of charge very kindly by Music: https://www.purple-planet.com . The track is called Hope and Inspire.

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Scott Whitney:

Today joining me is Kirsty Hayward. Kirsty was late diagnosed with ADHD throughout her education, early career and in social circles Kirsty was undiagnosed. So I'm hoping to to learn from Kirsty what society needs to do to improve and to support people who are late diagnosed and will do this through Kirsty's life experiences. So Kirsty, welcome to the All4Inclusion Pod.

Kirsty Hayward:

Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Scott Whitney:

Do you mind just just telling the listeners before we go into any detail, a little bit about yourself?

Kirsty Hayward:

Yeah, sure. So I'm based in Brighton. I was diagnosed with ADHD the latter half of last year which is one of the best things that have happened to me. And I'm sure we'll come onto a little bit more detail about that later on. I'm 35 almost, and I left my corporate job a couple of years ago to set up a workplace wellbeing consultancy, basically to help others with similar challenges, but in the workplace.

Scott Whitney:

Thank you very much. So to start with, what I wanted to do was was do a little bit of word association. So I'm go ng to i just say a word and just the first thing that comes into your mind. Regarding this word, just blurt it out.

Kirsty Hayward:

Oh God. You said this could be edited, didn't you?

Scott Whitney:

Yeah. Yeah, it can be. I'm sure. I'm sure there's not gonna be anything that needs to be edited, but yeah. So Education

Kirsty Hayward:

School

Scott Whitney:

Family

Kirsty Hayward:

love

Scott Whitney:

mental health,

Kirsty Hayward:

a problem

Scott Whitney:

employers

Kirsty Hayward:

difficult

Scott Whitney:

and dreams.

Kirsty Hayward:

Oh, the future.

Scott Whitney:

The future. Excellent. I feel when we talk to people about ADHD the first thing that pops in to someone's head is a young white. boy, between the age of potentially eight to 13, who has lots of energy.

Kirsty Hayward:

Couldn't agree more. Yep.

Scott Whitney:

Why do you think that is?

Kirsty Hayward:

It's a really good question. Actually, I don't know the answer to that. I guess thinking about it, it's because there's a lack of awareness still, although there has certainly been a sort of shift, I would say, in the perception of ADHD more recently. But I think when we, when I think back to school, I would never have, I would never have been positioned as someone with ADHD. I was just the naughty kid who was a bit of the clown, really chatterbox. But I think it's that it was, that, it's that sort of stigma attached to it, isn't it? Of like naughty little boys at school just causing trouble. In this case it was a naughty little girl causing trouble, yeah I guess that's just, it's just an old school, old hat outdated stigma attached to that perception of ADHD.

Scott Whitney:

And my big concern about it is in 10, 15, 20 years time, the perception of ADHD is still gonna, is still gonna be the same. And people aren't learning from people like yourself. So what made you think about getting a diagnosis?

Kirsty Hayward:

So I was in Asda with my really good friend at the time who is a special needs teacher, and I was like frantically running from aisle to aisle. We were getting some bits and pieces for a party and she said to me, and she's my German friend, I won't put the accent on, but she said "Kirsty I really think you just need to just calm down. I really think you might need to have a look into adhd" very blunt and i stopped immediately on my tracks and I was like, ADHD what is this thing you talk of? And I came home that evening and I just did a good old typical hyper focus and researched everything that I could possibly contain in my brain within about a 24 hour period. And then some. And then I realized as I was reading a lot about what those, behavioral traits look like, I just, it was like ping, ping. That's me, as I was going through and I just thought, Oh my God I need to know either way. Maybe it can help me learn more about myself and how I can channel. Having ADHD more in a more positive sort of manner, really. So that's where the journey started a couple of years ago.

Scott Whitney:

And I guess if I was looking myself and five, six years ago my perception of someone with ADHD was, as I described earlier. But actually now, if someone was to say, describing ADHD I don't see a human. All I see is a brain and all I see in this brain are dots going from one place to another and energy going to those dots. And I think the reason for that is my limited understanding is that's what sort of happens in the brain when you go from one thing to another very quickly. Does that make sense?

Kirsty Hayward:

Yeah, it's a really good example actually. It sounds like you're describing my brain

Scott Whitney:

So what was the main story behind leaving your corporate role and was you diagnosed with ADHD when you left your corporate role, or did you leave before?

Kirsty Hayward:

No, the diagnosis took a long time. I went through Psychiatry uk. A friend of mine recommended to go to them, which was one of the best bits of advice I'd ever had. So I was still working for my employer and I'd obviously had this conversation with my friend in Asda, and I knew way before that I, I knew straight away. I was like, Oh my God, this is it. Everything is making sense now. There's clarity around that so I applied immediately through Psychiatry UK because to go privately costs several thousand. And even then there was a waiting list and Psychiatry came back pretty quickly and said, Yep, we can definitely help but it''s gonna take at least two years. I thought, oh God, okay. So anyway, I applied because I was determined to, find out and I spoke to my employer and I said to him, I think I might, I think I might have neurodiversity, I think I might have ADHD and he said to me, What does that mean, That just goes back to what we were saying earlier, doesn't it? And then I think that's when a round Covid was I'm trying to remember whether that was the tail end or the middle of covid. But either way, I ended up thinking I've just got to do something different. My current role, I was a sales director, so I was in, I've been in sales my whole career, which, when you have ADHD and particularly being undiagnosed, it can be quite a tricky environment to navigate in my own personal experience. So I thought, I'm gonna do something more meaningful, but I'm gonna do something that comes from my heart and this is gonna be what I'm gonna do with my life. I was already working and creating workspaces I thought, how about I create workspaces, but for people with, sensory and cognitive challenges and doing research into that, which is what I did. So naturally the progression was working with businesses to help create more inclusive workspaces, more inclusive and productive workspaces. And that's what I do now. Yeah, that's how I ended up doing what I'm doing. And this is a couple of years later. So yeah, I obviously left my job to do that. And here I am.

Scott Whitney:

When we was doing the word association, you mentioned mental health and your immediate response was problem. Was that is the problem ongoing? Was it worse prior to the diagnosis or or has the diagnosis helped ease it at all?

Kirsty Hayward:

Yeah, I must admit, when I was thinking of the word problem, I was thinking on a more general level rather than a personal experience. But in terms of how I am now, I feel much more just, I just feel much healthier now than I ever have done and that's definitely hugely down to the fact that I was diagnosed. And I now have an ADHD coach I work wit I have someone that I go with privately for that. And that's been really helpful. Yeah I guess I just having that clarity and understanding what the behaviors are of mine that I could then work on the ones I wanted to. I felt that they were a problem at the time and I worked on those and I'm implementing new behaviors that are sustainable. So that's that's something I'm working on. Did I answer your question? All of your question then?

Scott Whitney:

Pretty sure. Yeah. we'll say you did. Obviously that's, that says that mental health is getting better or should help people when it comes to a diagnosis. Definitely. Yeah. So if someone thinks they have ADHD or have ADHD as a condition, what advice would you give to them?

Kirsty Hayward:

I would always encourage people to talk about it because I'd had this complete fear and terror of people judging me or thinking that I was weird or my, One of my biggest fears was about employers thinking that I'm, If they knew what ADHD meant, then they'd say oh God, that means that she's not capable of her job and then they would let me go. That was my biggest fear at the time. Luckily I had a good relationship with my employer. I'd been there a few years already, but if I'd been new into the post I don't know how I'd have felt. Probably less inclined to talk about it. There would be that talking about it and then definitely speaking to somebody to have advice around how to manage it and channel it in a really positive manner because there are, so many people talk about it being a superpower and it definitely can be, but. I, I wouldn't always say that is the case. I actually just wrote a really personal article that last couple of days because it was Mental Health Day recently, wasn't it? Around my own experience of mental health and how that was and evolved throughout my working experiences and the environments I worked in, and some of which were extremely toxic and unhealthy and, that was a real challenge. I spiraled a lot throughout. Twenties, really mainly all of my twenties, up and down, because I didn't really know how to regulate myself, my emotions and what I was thinking and feeling. I didn't know why I felt the way I did. I didn't really ever feel like I fit in. All of my validation was through what I thought was success. And what good looks like. was very sensitive to criticism and that was really difficult. Again, by having that awareness and speaking to, and not necessarily suggesting a, an ADHD private coach is the, a viable solution for everybody but. Even just talking to a family member or a friend or, there are lots of free services online, free therapy, there, there are options out there and I would definitely consider or recommend exploring those for sure.

Scott Whitney:

Okay. Let's go back in time even further. The naughty chatter box in school. Did the naughty chatter box in school have drive to do well?

Kirsty Hayward:

Oh yeah, only in things I was interested in so if it was anything that's gonna take too long, probably not at the time. But things I enjoy practical tasks were always, have, always been something that I've really enjoyed things with. Just things I found really interesting. So for me personally, it was English and it was drama naturally and foreign languages. That was definitely my area, but anything out of that. Oh and design as well anything creative. I've always been super creative, drawing and painting and that sort of stuff, but anything outside of that. So like academically, things like maths and science and geography just found really difficult. Yeah, I'd say Those are the sorts of things I found really challenging at school. And that's when I stopped to be distracting in hyphens and and being a bit of a class clown. And now I know why

Scott Whitney:

Yeah and the reason I asked that is because when you describe your working career in your twenties what came across was you got lots of drive and determination to do well, but there just wasn't that support in place. And potentially on the social side, like you mentioned, fitting in and things like that. And I know you mentioned toxic employers and to toxic, you didn't say toxic businesses, but there are toxic managers in good businesses, there are toxic businesses with good managers. And what do businesses need to do better?

Kirsty Hayward:

That's a really good question. I do a lot of raising awareness around this. I think the main thing is for them to just be open minded to exploring this world of neurodiversity and, being readily available and creating safe spaces for this, what, 20% of their workforce? 20% of the population at least and by doing that effect, Creating and delivering a really consistent, clear message in the first instance. If, for example, neurodiversity is not something they currently talk about, it's, clear message of this is something that we want to support you with. We would, you, we would encourage you to come forward, talk to us. It can be a private. Private process necessarily to be, coming out and speaking about it in the Monday morning meeting, but certainly come forward privately on an email or whatever and start having that, creating that dialogue that's the most important thing. And then being consistent with it. So not just having those initial discussions and then forgetting about it because they're busy doing other stuff, trying to create profit or whatever else is the current priority, but really consist. Inviting people in, creating a safe space for them to just talk about how they're feeling and asking them, How do you feel that we can help you, excel and do the best of your ability, to do your work to the best of your abilities. Those with ADHD can be 30% more productive than those without. And people without ADHD can be incredibly productive as well. This is not just about s aying that one is better than the other. Cause that's not the case at all. But it's almost like a missing out on talent. Why not draw on that? And the, we are already there, people with ADHD and businesses. It's just about making sure that you've put those support function mechanisms in place. And understanding who those individuals are is also really helpful. So what it comes to neurodiversity in work?

Scott Whitney:

I've got a few I've got a few theories behind it. First of all you mentioned 20%. So if you've got around about 20%, maybe slightly more, maybe slightly less, depending on the specific business. your client base is also going to almost mirror your employees. So if you've got zero neurodiversity in a business, it means you've not got anyone that's understanding 20% of your clients in the same way. And also people think differently in general and a lot of the time I find that that people who are neurodiverse will think slightly different and who wants to be in a meeting where everyone is nodding and we've got one question and we've got 20 people coming up with the same idea. Businesses won't progress unless they have lots of different ideas.

Kirsty Hayward:

Really good point actually. Yeah, very valid.

Scott Whitney:

But the key that you mentioned is talent. Let's take away any disability, any condition, any sort of neurodiverity. It falls down to talent and if you are excluding in any way, shape, or form or not supporting people who are neurodiverse the employee will go to a business who is including them and is supporting them, and what you are doing is you're making your competitors stronger.

Kirsty Hayward:

You're absolutely right. Yeah. And they see the talent come back to the talent point that you just made. They're spending money on on tasks that perhaps don't even need to be spent. So for, just for an example, I read a report the other day or an article about a big tech company that had some people carrying out this task for, it was, I know it was quite a data driven task. That's what I remember reading about. And it was taking these particular research several weeks to complete this task. And then they came and they placed some people with autism and dyslexia on the same task. Four hours done. Incredible. What a story, That's just a perfect example, by spreading out the awareness you are as a business gaining more it's a no-brainer really for me.

Scott Whitney:

Yeah. And what you're doing is you're drawing on different people's strengths, Okay. I spoke to an insurer a large insurance company two weeks ago, and they, in 2022 decided to not pressure in any way, shape or form their employees, but explained the benefits behind answering the question. Do you have a disability or condition that you would like us to be aware of? The answers being yes, no, prefer not to say. In 2021, only 20% of their staff had answered yes or no. so they was only aware of 20% of their staff in 2020. They've got 80% that have answered incredible. And the reason why they've got that, or they've said that, is because they want to put the right things into place for these employees, and they want to be able to understand and be able to work with them and also draw on their experiences to, to help with user experience from a customer perspective. Some of this is changes that they have made is policy wording in larger print for people who. Policy wording in larger print people who are vision impairments, sometimes people who are neurodiverse prefer this as well. So if you was back in, in your twenties, would you have answered and you was diagnosed, what would, what do you think you would've answered? Do you think you would've ticked Yes, I made, I have adhd? Or would you have ticked prefer not to say,

Kirsty Hayward:

probably prefer not to say at the. In fact, with my certain, I would imagine.

Scott Whitney:

Yeah. Why do you think that is?

Kirsty Hayward:

Just again, that stigma, isn't it? It's the stigma around what people are gonna think of you. My validation at the time, and this is probably, something else that I had to work on, my validation was coming from being successful. I was so driven and I just thought that being successful was gonna make me happy. Took me a long time to work out that wasn't the case at all. And and actually that was the part of the problem. So ironically go around know, in full circle there. So yeah, I think I just was terrified of being, I'd let go, losing my job basically, despite, obviously being very capable and doing a really good job. I just thought they'd think, Oh we don't want her because she's got a problem. and bearing in mind, I had a conversation with my employer just two and a half years ago about neurodiversity, and he asked me what that meant. We're talking now 10 years ago, can you imagine? He'd been like, Neuro, what? Now, at least, my boss's previous boss had heard of Neurodiversity. He just didn't know what it meant. Yeah. It's been a slow burn, hasn't it? Let's be honest.

Scott Whitney:

It, it has. And then you look at you were successful at your job anyway. If you know now where it's, it is more of a topic which we are speaking about, think about how successful you could have been with extra supports and aids in place if you needed any, Not saying y ou did that could have then been an extra benefit for you. And your employer.

Kirsty Hayward:

Yeah, definitely. The thing that my the challenges that I had predominantly were burnout. That's been a really common process for me. I've taken a year out a couple of time not, but the first time I took a year out because, AA was financially able to at the time and I wanted to great traveling. So I did that and I used that as a bit of a reason and a bit of an excuse. But now I look back I can see it's because I was absolutely burnt out to the point of despair. It took me a full year to basically recover from that because I'd been at full pelt with my foot on the, on the accelerator at 110 for so long. There's only long, so long you can sustain that. So it would be like these mega amazing highs of me working literally around the clock. And then I'd have this period of. I literally can't function, so I'm gonna have to just take a little bit of time just to recoup basically. So that was that was my challenge around around that really.

Scott Whitney:

Okay. So we're taking the foot off the accelerator a bit. Now we're slowing down and we're supporting businesses. So you go into into a business, what's the first thing that, that you look.

Kirsty Hayward:

Generally speaking, it's it, being so passionate about diversity and inclusion anyway. That's usually the first thing. It's just understanding from them and their, and their leadership teams. Initially what is a priority. That's usually the first thing, and it will just be understanding what kind of current engagement and comms that they deliver at that point, which is usually quite scarce. And that's not even in every case because they haven't wanted to. It might be capacity, it might be lack of knowledge, it might be lack of expertise, or Many of them have the will and the want. It's just how you know. So it's just understanding what they currently have in place at the moment and where they would like to get to. And then I can basically fill in the blanks, which is what I tend to do and develop that process and work with them at a pace that's comfortable for them really.

Scott Whitney:

Yeah. I love to use the word choose. So I always say that that businesses either choose to be inclusive or accessible, or they choose not to. I'll get pulled up on it quite a bit. People say no, it's not that we don't choose to do it but. I always argue, but you choose to be proactive or reactive to it. So we've got companies who are not inclusive or accessible. And some of it's down to ignorance and some of it's down to lack of knowledge. And it's actually, I would say there's a high percentage that it's down to lack of knowledge. So what's the best way to fill that knowledge gap?

Kirsty Hayward:

You mean for the employers to be able to understand what they need to do Exactly. There are so many things that they could do. The first thing I would always recommend is reaching out to their employees. That would be the first thing for me, because people, although they may not even think that they do, most employees know that they'll know if they need support. So it's either a yes or a no. And if they do say that they would like support once they've been, made to feel in a safe space that they can come forward, then generally speaking now, a lot of the ideas will be in the room. So just by asking questions, basically a create, create a safe space and ask questions and just listen. That'll be my first bit of advice really. It's very simple, but, really undervalued. I think just that with the starting point in every scenario,

Scott Whitney:

for me it does sound so simple and it almost sounds too simple. and then you think, why is it not happening?

Kirsty Hayward:

Yeah, I think there's a lot of nervousness around it. I went to go and see a client the other day locally, and they were saying to me, we really want to work on our diversity and inclusion policy, and we really want to start hosting some more events around this. And another topic they were interested in was gender. So they were saying to me, we just don't, we're a bit nervous. We don't know what language to use. Can you say neuro divergent? Is that a thing? Are you allowed to say neurotypical or is. Then Using the wrong language and making the other feel left out, and how do we differentiate between our priorities and the language? And I just broke it down for them, step by step. Okay, so we've got this, we've got this, and working on the individual projects and the narrative behind that separately, so it can feel overwhelming, someone with adhd, I can completely relate to what overwhelm feels like that I could assure you of. So I get it. I get it. They don't wanna say the wrong thing. And as an employee, you've got responsibilities to make sure you are executing things in a correct fashion with the correct wording. And that's why you have people out there like us, so that, we can provide that assistance and support. So if you're a company wanting to do that, Find the right people and that will help you to deliver what is you want to achieve.

Scott Whitney:

And every employer has a duty to your care to their employees. There's a couple of things you touched upon there. One being language and and with language, me personally, I always feel I'm, I've the language someone uses to. I don't really mind if they get it wrong, as long as it's said with good intent. And actually I don't know what language I should be saying yet that's acceptable or not myself, but I guess to me, if I find it acceptable, it's acceptable. Yeah, but it's the other point is, Do you think businesses would prefer to do nothing than to do something and make a mistake?

Kirsty Hayward:

I think there's probably a bit both. I think it really depends on the company and the structure and like you said earlier, you can have toxic companies with really good managers in who are really inclusive and then vice versa. So I think it really depends. I've certainly come across both. I've worked and worked for and done consultancy for both as well. So I've seen it from all avenues or your work, as a consultant delivering workplace change because the company says that they want you to do that, and then the employees have not been engaged at all prior to that, and then they're really afraid of all the change and there's a lot of anxiety around it, or, there, there are so many different scenarios around that. So I would say, Quite, quite likely. All of the above, I would say. Yeah.

Scott Whitney:

Excellent. And as we're getting to the point where we're wrapping up we are in ADHD awareness month and what, when this episode comes out, we are right at the end of ADHD awareness month. It'll be the 26th of October. But that's not too late to do something. And what should a business be doing then to say let's educate ourselves or what should someone like myself, who doesn't have ADHD be doing to upskill my knowledge?

Kirsty Hayward:

There are lots of, again, there are lots of options out there available. You could start off by, working closely with your communications and marketing team. You've got some really excellent skills and expertise in house if you have already, if you have teams that, that do that and creating, could have an awareness day or an awareness event, or you could. Have somebody come in and we deliver workshops, but there are lots of companies that do that sort of thing out there. You can get somebody to come in and do a talk around neurodiversity in the workplace, and expert. So then it takes away that, that nervousness and anxiety around, oh God, how do I say it? What am I allowed to say gender neutral? Or do I have to say, do something else, is, put it into an expert's hands. And that's a really cost effective, a way of introducing that within the business. And then, What I would always recommend when, for example, when we do workshops or webinars, we'll then follow up with feedback surveys that are, that are thoroughly designed in order to create engagement with people with neurodiversity, and then collect that data and ask quite simply, what did you like about this webinar workshop? What would you like us to expand on next time? And then they can look to bring the coach in who might then elaborate specifically on. A workshop around ADHD or autism or dyslexia, and then you're starting to create communities of people who are similar and then providing them with sustainable solutions, tips, and advice to manage that at work. And then separately, we have workshops where they're working with HR teams on how to recruit, retain, advertise, posts. and working with leadership teams on managing people with neurodiversity there, there are so many options, and then obviously you. I do, I also provide inclusive design. So you've also got the physical element, designing for cognitive and when and sensory wellbeing is key. And as part of an inclusive design, you are designing a space for all kinds of individuals. So everybody, that's why it's called inclusive design. And you're creating spaces for, know, not just for collaboration, working with a row of 20 desks in between it, stand and old school setup, but you're creating spaces for retreat, recuperation, relaxation. Social areas, creativity. You've got, you are providing a diversity of spaces to accommodate for, diversity of people. So it's just making sure that. You've done your, done your due diligence and you're providing these things for these people, and as a result, you're gonna see an improvement to mental health, and therefore you're gonna see an improvement to the overall performance and productivity of your business. So it's a, it's a win-win as far as I can see.

Scott Whitney:

Excellent. And there's lots of, when it comes to ADHD there are lots of different traits and different things that you need to adapt to. What has been your biggest learn personally with ADHD? What's being diagnosed? What's the thing that's made the biggest difference to yourself? I

Kirsty Hayward:

would say doing something that I genuinely care about and. I just, I don't think I've, I never even really thought that was a thing, when I was younger it was just a case of, Oh, I've got this really great job on paper. That was always like the main thing for me, really. How quickly can I move up the ranks and do the next thing next next. And now I'm doing something that I genuinely care about. Naturally. I'm just, I'm in my comfort zone, not in terms of, I'm, I've been, I've grown a business, I've left that element of comfortable and put myself into a situation where there's obviously know, there are challenges around that, but, and a, and an element of risk, of course, but I'm doing something I'm so unbelievably passionate about that I care so much about that is doing such an amazing thing that. Anxiety and stress that I used to get over like a Sunday night. That horrible Sunday night feeling you get before work, you're like, Oh God, I got to go to work tomorrow. I'm so stressed, I don't wanna go. I hate my job. I don't have that anymore. And that was such a huge burden for me because I was, I'd create this working environment where it was just so stressful. I chose such a stressful career and and I don't have that anymore. And as a result, my work life balance, it's much improved, I would say.

Scott Whitney:

I spoke to someone maybe about six months ago who is a business owner and he didn't like Mondays and even when he came a business owner, he didn't like Mondays, and part of the reason is in the house on a Sunday evening and afternoon, everyone was rushing about doing things. Maybe getting the children ready for school the next day or whatever. Cleaning up all the dishes after a roast dinner or whatever it was.

Kirsty Hayward:

No one likes doing that, do they?

Scott Whitney:

No one likes that No. So that he then believed was the reason why he didn't like, working on Monday mornings, and if he felt it was giving, affecting his kind of like you said, I don't want to, I've gotta get up, I've gotta get up. So he just decided to not work Monday mornings and and he loves taking that Monday to build himself into the week. So he's he's replaced that. Sunday evening stress. Before work with a relaxing Monday before work. And that was his way of of overcoming that.

Kirsty Hayward:

That's such a lovely idea. That's great. It's crazy, isn't it? If you think about the concept of a five day working week, we've got seven days to live on this earth and do you know, things that we want to do and have to cram it all into two days? And for those that have got children, I've got a dog people with commitments and responsibilities. How can you really enjoy life just of two days, and you're cramming the rest into those other five days to, to do the job for your employers. It's difficult, I think that, If we if only we could if we could go to a four day working week that's something for the future. But that would be the dream. That's certainly something that I'm on the I've got on my agenda. I've designed my business around that being the end goal, actually. So who knows? We'll see.

Scott Whitney:

For me, do I want to do a four day working week? I'm quite happy doing seven days, working week, but I don't want to do seven days, nine till five. I don't want to do any day nine till five, if I'm honest. I want to be able to, I would rather spread it out across the week so then I've got more time and energy to focus on doing the things I enjoy doing.

Kirsty Hayward:

Exactly, and it can, you can right back to that workplace balance that you mentioned. And, I couldn't agree more. If you've got an employer that's allowing you to have a healthier, happier work balance, then you're gonna have more time, aren't you? If you are, working for an employer that in the evenings you're gonna have that energy and that. Want and the zaz about, going to do something in the evening that's fulfilling. Whether it be like a nice beach walk in the evening or whether it be just going for a nice wonder in the local park, or walking your dog or whatever it might be. You're gonna be in good spirits and you're gonna really enjoy that and be able to be really present. And that's, something that's super important and that's something that we Be involved with you having a happier work life, allowing you to, it will then result in you having a happier home life. In some ways I think there's certainly interlinked there aren't there, So there's always crossover. When you've finished a bad day at work, you'll come home and, you can sometimes bring that home with you. And that's not nice for anyone.

Scott Whitney:

No. And it has that, it then has that ripple effect onto. Onto, your family and your family not having a nice next day because you've had a bad day work the day before. So the last question that I've started to ask people is, what one improvement to society would you make?

Kirsty Hayward:

I love that. I'm social purpose driven, I'm social and environmentally purpose driven, so we're not driven by profit and very seen will be social enterprise and half the profits will be going to a community cause and that's, I just, for me, that's, I just love that idea about helping others and doing good things for the planet and for the people. So if there was something that I could do around that, around encouraging businesses of a certain, I don't know. Stature or size or profitability or something like that. Having the option for them to then, support local communities or young vulnerable girls in a mentor group. So that's something I do on the side after the Y M C A, for example, or a local dog's trust or something, or just doing, contributing to smaller community slash charity slash non-for-profit community projects, I would say excellent. Everyone has to give 50% of their profits to charity before the end of the, before the end of the year. No bit drastic you get the picture. Just something lovely like that, I think.

Scott Whitney:

Yeah. Excellent. So the 3rd of November, we are doing our first disability inclusion networking. That's a place where people. Will come together working to improve inclusion for their business, sharing some ideas. Our guest speaker is is Isaac Harvey, and we'll be doing a little bit of a q and a with Isaac, and it's also sponsored by Welcome Me by Neat Box, which is an amazing app that helps people and businesses communicate better, so everyone's getting a better user experience. And and also don't forget the first Monday of each month on the, So the 7th of November will be the Purple Pound show. So the purple pound show, for those who don't know, is aimed at businesses to help make them be more inclusive. And accessible. And we have three guests. And the topic for Novembers is all around recruitment. So Kirsty, one final question. I'll sneak one more in what topic would you say or would you recommend me considering for the Purple Pound show? So one topic that businesses. Need educating and support.

Kirsty Hayward:

We've talked a lot about neurodiversity. I know you've got that topic covered to a t Anything interlinked with wellbeing, really. There are so many topics in wellbeing, right? As I said, I mentioned earlier, we talk a lot. We have workshops around gender. And and supporting that that topic, something that's really important and often overlooked. I think again, I think it's PR probably because there's a lot of nervousness around that. So that could be a really interesting really useful support function, I think. Yeah, something around gender or diversity and inclusion in terms of, Processes that they could implement. I think action orientated processes because as I say, there's so much talk and lots of companies I come across, but very little action. Maybe sharing some examples of things that they could actually do. I think that might be really useful for businesses. I've given you two there. Just give an extra short one for free

Scott Whitney:

So thank you everyone for listening. We'll be back in two weeks time. But also thank you so much for for joining us and and talking to us. Kirsty, thank you for coming on.

Kirsty Hayward:

Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me. It was really nice to meet you and yeah, I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.